Nostr notes by

Need an escrow service for anything like this to be feasible. ...

2026-10-31T15:38:51Z

In reply to nevent1q…zcuv
_________________________

Need an escrow service for anything like this to be feasible. There was a bitcoin escrow service but no bitcoiner cared so the creator just stopped working on it.

That to me proved that bitcoin is not a serious project. You need an escrow to do basically anything real.

when min 8 PoW with no option to turn it off?

2026-10-31T01:20:01Z

In reply to nevent1q…qjvv
_________________________

when min 8 PoW with no option to turn it off?

Happy Halloween, to all who celebrate. 🎃 We're too sick to ...

2026-10-31T15:32:06Z

Happy Halloween, to all who celebrate. 🎃

We're too sick to dress up and party, but I see that Hubby has made sure to include the almost- good Ferrero chocolates in the bowl, so my trick for tonight will be stealing candy from babies. 👻

I am ready.

Fair enough! So you'd rather have everything be built on the ...

2026-10-31T13:20:39Z

In reply to nevent1q…d86r
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Fair enough!

So you'd rather have everything be built on the side? Like: people have whatever full-time job & work on open-source stuff on weekends and at night?

These days my VPN is tor. There's one specific thing I cannot ...

2026-10-31T13:07:39Z

In reply to nevent1q…vqnd
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These days my VPN is tor.

There's one specific thing I cannot use it for and have to turn it off, but everything else always goes to Tor.

Open source doesn’t guarantee privacy But closed source ...

2026-10-31T11:47:01Z

Open source doesn’t guarantee privacy

But closed source guarantees you can’t verify

Your ISP sells your browsing data in many countries, legally A ...

2026-10-31T02:47:01Z

Your ISP sells your browsing data in many countries, legally

A no-log VPN is not optional, it’s baseline

I already KYCed for the domain and the store would be another one ...

2026-10-31T18:18:33Z

In reply to nevent1q…8mjt
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I already KYCed for the domain and the store would be another one and two stores would be three...

A whole class of Monero chain-analysis targets decoy selection, ...

2026-10-31T21:00:01Z

A whole class of Monero chain-analysis targets decoy selection, guessing which ring member is the real spend

FCMP++ removes decoys entirely

Nothing to guess when the anonymity set is the whole chain

Whoa. XMR zap receipt just dropped. 👀

2026-10-31T18:23:42Z

In reply to nevent1q…6gmj
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Whoa. XMR zap receipt just dropped. 👀

Oh, but isn't it fun opening the door? We get whole gaggles ...

2026-10-31T17:08:12Z

In reply to nevent1q…neau
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Oh, but isn't it fun opening the door? We get whole gaggles of kids arriving and it's so fun.

We used to get even more, when we lived in the new housing development. Went from 6 PM to 9 PM.

I looked into supporting iOS, since my kids have Apple tablets I ...

2026-10-31T18:15:58Z

In reply to nevent1q…7n7t
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I looked into supporting iOS, since my kids have Apple tablets I can test with. But I don't even publish on Google's store, yet, just on Zapstore.

I prefer building web apps, to be honest. The whole store thing is very annoying, and I need to run a server, anyway.

It was never either of ours. I had this high-powered industry ...

2026-10-31T16:53:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…uy8p
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It was never either of ours.

I had this high-powered industry career, when we met (I was 21.) and on our first date, he asked me what my future plans were and I said, "Get married and have kids." And he was like, "Oh, wow. 😳 Ha ha. Whoa. Never heard a woman reply with that... But same. 🥂"

Second date, we were already picking out baby names. Our kids have those names. 😂

#TrueStory

Just deleted the one and only CEX account I had. I have always ...

2026-10-31T01:17:45Z

Just deleted the one and only CEX account I had.

I have always used #RetoSwap and LocalMonero before it if I needed to sell any #Monero, but I had never relied on Reto for buying.

That has changed over the last couple months because I kept getting emails from the centralized exchange like please fill out tax information because we're a regulated platform and I had no intention of doing so.

I have now bought Monero enough times on Reto to know what to expect.

So, goodbye CEX, you will not be missed ✌️

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution, but nature ...

2026-10-30T06:42:53Z

In reply to nevent1q…mqnr
_________________________

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution, but nature apparently has a solution for your problem, so you do you.

Nostr event nevent1qqsg63crwpvkurguu6rjpdp72exykf7ctx0r7jdn6wvsftrtvul6eyqpx3mhxue69uhkuetjdaehgu3w0pkhytnjda3kkue0dehhxarj8fhx2un0wd68ytncd4ezuun0vd4hxtm8dakxvq3qlxzaxzge0jq9u9cecucctdt5lslwgp7hcxmp2l0wn8r2ecjenwasu2a6vy

2026-10-31T00:25:33Z

wow really glad I got my @Foundation prime shipped to a dead drop

Bless you both, my fren. ❤️

2026-10-30T20:08:30Z

In reply to nevent1q…jec3
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Bless you both, my fren. ❤️

According to my girlfriend, I make two mistakes: first, I never ...

2026-10-30T17:21:15Z

According to my girlfriend, I make two mistakes: first, I never really listen and second... something else.

😂

2026-10-30T16:58:52Z

In reply to nevent1q…wfth
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😂

It's on our list — so soon™

2026-10-30T16:47:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…utk6
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It's on our list — so soon™

Nostr event nevent1qqsqqqx9qhg2vyhseungk88d4pjl3wjj2dms3fr5zhha6ftcjppctvcpx3mhxue69uhkuetjdaehgu3w0pkhytnjda3kkue0dehhxarj8fhx2un0wd68ytncd4ezuun0vd4hxtm8dakxvq3qp47we20qqrn3rcnrhs22ygt2kayk320fq046y998zscq4hk7tgsqpwa8qf

2026-10-30T16:19:37Z

One thing I wonder about is if the age of first marriage will ...

2026-10-30T15:02:53Z

In reply to nevent1q…5ewk
_________________________

One thing I wonder about is if the age of first marriage will eventually decline, again. It's been creeping up and up and up, and the reason given has always been primarily economic (ya gotta "make it" before you "put a ring on it").

But making it has become a more difficult and uncertain task, so why wait? Marriage is the cheaper, more economically-resilient lifestyle. Easier to marry and then try to make it, now that everything costs an arm and a leg and job markets disappear overnight.

The Church used to keep the records. The French Revolution ...

2026-10-30T14:26:03Z

In reply to nevent1q…6nal
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The Church used to keep the records. The French Revolution changed that.

quoting
nevent1q…uy4r
under the Napoleonic Code, marriage was viewed solely as a civil contract.

Ah, you mean translating notes. Good idea. It's on our list ...

2026-10-30T12:47:56Z

In reply to nevent1q…h2m5
_________________________

Ah, you mean translating notes. Good idea. It's on our list now.

Nostr event nevent1qqsqqqz8ugtdsyvqjkqsx0mfnss76d4zv54e6gjpke9pllj9lhgkqlspx3mhxue69uhkuetjdaehgu3w0pkhytnjda3kkue0dehhxarj8fhx2un0wd68ytncd4ezuun0vd4hxtm8dakxvq3qp47we20qqrn3rcnrhs22ygt2kayk320fq046y998zscq4hk7tgsqpv0nq2

2026-10-30T12:14:59Z

Its already translated in several languages. Check settings!

2026-10-30T11:19:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…cjaw
_________________________

Its already translated in several languages. Check settings!

F-Droid soon... Needs a while after release.

2026-10-30T11:17:45Z

In reply to nevent1q…80mu
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F-Droid soon...

Needs a while after release.

Three questions for any privacy tool Who holds the data? Who ...

2026-10-30T10:00:01Z

Three questions for any privacy tool

Who holds the data?
Who holds the keys?
What happens when they’re compelled?

Tails 7.16 is out https://tails.net/news/version_7.16/ ...

2026-10-30T08:46:47Z

Tails 7.16 is out
https://tails.net/news/version_7.16/

I'm moving all of our Nostr specs from kind 30818 to 30817 ...

2026-10-30T08:31:29Z

I'm moving all of our Nostr specs from kind 30818 to 30817 and updating the project documentation, accordingly.

Yeah, that's unusual. Doesn't mean that it's what ...

2026-10-30T06:58:20Z

In reply to nevent1q…skhr
_________________________

Yeah, that's unusual.

Doesn't mean that it's what most men would prefer, which is an important differentiation. Most young men want to marry.

😎

2026-10-30T06:50:13Z

In reply to nevent1q…nxnu
_________________________

😎

Nostr event nevent1qqsg7jlgprcnkcphepm3yvu4jc9u5qndg3m9m2xmxxw868qtmdhpkncpx3mhxue69uhkuetjdaehgu3w0pkhytnjda3kkue0dehhxarj8fhx2un0wd68ytncd4ezuun0vd4hxtm8dakxvq3qm4ny6hjqzepn4rxknuq94c2gpqzr29ufkkw7ttcxyak7v43n6vvs205tse

2026-10-29T18:08:50Z

Crazy about the Spanish train. 😔

Amerikanische Ausländerbehörde ist bereits so grausam, dass ...

2026-10-30T06:40:15Z

Amerikanische Ausländerbehörde ist bereits so grausam, dass manche Anwohner Angst haben, dass sie am Allerheiligen am Grab verhaftet werden.

#USA

❤️

2026-10-30T06:38:18Z

In reply to nevent1q…9769
_________________________

❤️

Binance $6.3B hack ...

2026-10-30T04:47:25Z

Binance $6.3B hack

XMR/BTC last 12 months 0.0036 → 0.0075 ₿ (+109%) $XMR $BTC ...

2026-10-30T04:25:51Z

XMR/BTC last 12 months

0.0036 → 0.0075 ₿ (+109%)

$XMR $BTC

well, i finally pulled the trigger and ordered a new laptop. I ...

2026-10-29T22:44:04Z

well, i finally pulled the trigger and ordered a new laptop. I have been saying for a while now that "when I replace my laptop I am going to use MGold from #XMRBazaar" and that is exactly what I did. the reason I already knew who I was going to buy from is because they price all their items directly in #Monero, and I have to support that.

The sad thing is I had to place the order with them over DM because XMRBazaar was giving me an error "could not publish offer" so I am dealing with MGold directly.

I am fairly confident the trade will go fine since they have 4.8+ stars across 42 reviews, but I wish the platform would have worked so that I could use it and give them a good review when I get my device. AilliA (npub1ajl…d9u3).

I am going from a 3rd gen Intel Core I7 with DDR3 and a 512GB HDD to an 11th gen Intel Core I5 with a 512GB Nvme and DDR4.

😂

2026-10-29T18:44:09Z

In reply to nevent1q…wney
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😂

Apparently. She had no wrinkles. She also had no pores.

2026-10-29T18:43:17Z

In reply to nevent1q…lucw
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Apparently. She had no wrinkles. She also had no pores.

There have been free sex cultures before. They never last long.

2026-10-29T18:40:56Z

In reply to nevent1q…5ewk
_________________________

There have been free sex cultures before. They never last long.

FCMP code is ready for review, audit quotes are due next week, ...

2026-10-29T17:54:27Z

FCMP code is ready for review, audit quotes are due next week, and devs hope to have all the code done by Q1. A BP++ idea could halve proof size, maybe in a later fork.

quoting
nevent1q…3xht
jberman reported that integration PRs are ready for review with followups implemented. Quotes for the integration audit are being fielded; final quotes and internal discussion are expected by next week. interestingband asked for the expected timeline including the hardfork date and stated an independent approach (spec, formal verification, ref implementation, performance testing) that can be done alone with AI, while also noting a possible Bulletproofs++ path for ~50% smaller membership proofs (PoC exists but not formally proven). jberman hoped for all code ready in Q1 and preferred reviews over full reimplementation. jeffro256 argued against waiting indefinitely for perfect unproven solutions, favoring the historical approach of moving forward then replacing modules. interestingband provided a short code snippet link and reiterated that the current work lacks a single spec and formal proof. sgp_ suggested discussing the BP++ idea separately; jberman saw it as interesting for a follow-up fork.

jberman: integration PR's are ready for review, followups implemented
jberman: we're fielding quotes for the integration audit and discussing them internally, I think we should have final quotes and discussion by next week
jberman: > interestingband: FCMP todo list: spec for it (no single spec), formal verificaiton of spec (most audits are just not reproducible "opinions"), ref implementation, performance testing (benchmark of ref implementation under simulated load), done; No idea what is a purpose of the meeting if 1 person can do it all with AI instead of bunch of humans walking in circles for few years;
jberman: interestingband wants to do all this too, so nice
interestingband: One q, what is expected timeline for it all at the moment including date for the actual hardfork ?
jberman: personally hoping all code is ready Q1. reviews would help move things along rather than trying to redo everything your way
interestingband: My approach is indepnedent on what others are doing and it's the only way to get the best result that I would be ok myself.
jberman: ok
interestingband: Btw, there is likely a way to use bulletproofs++ like instead of generalized bulletproofs and it allow 50% smaller membership proofs
interestingband: I have PoC and it looks feasible, but proven yet formally
jberman: IIRC Aaron had some reservations on BP++
interestingband: And there is little difference to verify formal proof with generalized bulletproofs or bulletproofs++ as proving system
jberman: but that does sound interesting
sgp_: This may be best to discuss separately
interestingband: sgp_: ok
jberman: imo would be interesting for a followup fork fwiw
rucknium: More on this item?
jeffro256: If we wait on perfect unproven solutions indefinitely, then no one gets FCMPs. Better to do what we've done in the past, which is: move forward, then replace modules with more efficient alternatives. There's a lot more work in doing a FCMP-style hardfork for Monero then just the BP code
interestingband: some real numbers for what is likely feasible
interestingband: https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/p/vbPv6LgLOEc0dnZP/1.txt (code snippet, 5 lines)
rucknium: jeffro256: Need to start doing a wait calculation for FCMP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel
interestingband: jeffro256: (the point is that current isn't proven, it doesn't even have a spec to prove, but once you have it, proving small change is easy, once you have full setup)
interestingband: jeffro256: (and privacy leak in carrot is an example of what wasn't proven in it, after your changes it's still unproven, it's just that you addresses discovered so far edge cases)
interestingband: jeffro256: (and my initial goal was to verify/prove what is written so far, bulletproofs++ addon is just a discovery in the process)
https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20261028#c717091
nevent1q…q38z

It's so funny how the sexual revolution left us with a world ...

2026-10-29T18:01:40Z

It's so funny how the sexual revolution left us with a world in which it's mostly the married people having sex. Turns out, sex being part of marriage was never a legal or theological rule; it was just describing the natural order.

iOS is not planned

2026-10-29T17:57:48Z

In reply to nevent1q…4qv7
_________________________

iOS is not planned

Simulations show rucknium's and ofrnxmr's patches block ...

2026-10-29T17:55:30Z

Simulations show rucknium's and ofrnxmr's patches block the Nyx eclipse attack. Hashrate-weighted nodes were proposed, but most nodes don't mine.

quoting
nevent1q…5xq6
rucknium presented simulation results for the Nyx eclipse attack under different patches and adversary strategies (separate /24s vs. 10 nodes per /24). His patch and ofrnxmr’s proposed changes perform roughly the same in the reviewed scenarios; ofrnxmr’s aims to handle more diverse strategies and includes bucketing, coarser deduplication, test-before-evict, and one outbound peer per netgroup. Images of results were shared. interestingband argued that any P2P without node weights is doomed, that whitelist changes are pointless, and that the correct approach is weighting nodes by hashrate/mining capability (non-miners connect via miners). Several participants pushed back: most nodes do not mine, a small miner could give an adversary an advantage, IPv4 scarcity currently provides a form of address limitation, and the proposed patch is a simple, practical defense against the specific Nyx cookbook attack rather than a comprehensive sybil solution. vtnerd supported the PR for that reason while noting residual issues without IPv4 scarcity. ofrnxmr described the concrete changes in the proposed series and noted they are not mutually exclusive with rucknium’s PR. rucknium listed possible paths (merge his PR, ofrnxmr’s, both, do nothing, or another solution). Discussion continued on list-size trade-offs, academic vs. practical approaches, and the need for a stop-gap while larger designs are explored.

rucknium: 7. Shi et al. (2026) "Are Unreachable Nodes Truly Safe? Fully Eclipsing Monero’s P2P Network!" (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2609.10260). p2p: increase white_list size and change connection selection algorithm (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/11527).
rucknium: ofrnxmr: Do you want to discuss your proposed patches?
interestingband: p2p without any weight for nodes is doomed to fail by design, since all nodes are equal
interestingband: No idea why you are wasting time on white list change, it's pointless
plowsof: https://observer.monerodevs.org/
rucknium: interestingband: It fixes this specific attack. It's not pointless.
interestingband: There is an approach for p2p layer around nodes based on their weight which should be linked to their mining capabilites, all other nodes should be connected via them. Done.
interestingband: It doesn't fix any attack
interestingband: It's the same pointless approach as OSPEAD for decoy selection
rucknium: The simulation proves it fixes the Nyx attack.
interestingband: Your simulation is far from reality then, bcs monero should work with any anonymous network
jeffro256: Solution to problems with decentralized network: make it centralized. Nice. > interestingband: There is an approach for p2p layer around nodes based on their weight which should be linked to their mining capabilites, all other nodes should be connected via them. Done.
ofrnxmr: Not the same thing, but the 101s drop replacement i spoke about at last meeting (not implemented) would add some metric of weighting to whether peeer connections are dropped (instead of random selection). My series does test-before-evict as well
vtnerd: The change makes the attack harder, but as interestingband: points out its difficult to determine which nodes to select and why. The node weight isn't anymore centralized than the mining process
boog900: most nodes do not mine and a lot of miners don't run nodes
vtnerd: Otoh, most nodes arent mining so Im not sure how that would work
vtnerd: Yes
boog900: Chainalysis would just need to run a small miner to get an advantage over normal nodes
gingeropolous: i've tasked the bots with a similar thing, current progress here: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/blob/progress-brief/README.md
boog900: Or insert adversary
plowsof: is mining hash cheaper than renting ips? who knows
vtnerd: chainanalysis just needs to convince everyone to switch to ipv6 and it's the same issue
rucknium: My patch definitely isn't meant to solve all network sybil issues. It's just a simple, quick patch to prevent major network disruption if an adversary decides to use the Nyx cookbook soon.
vtnerd: Yes, I support the pr for that reason. Just pointing out that it's dicey without ipv4 scarcity
ofrnxmr: rucknium do you want to share the prelim results of the recent sims?
rucknium: Yes. Do you want to explain what you patches do?
syntheticbird: vtnerd: on the topic of expensive addressing and communication protocol against sybil attacks. monero p2p over meshtastic would be a blast for common people and a bummer for adversaries.
rucknium: your*
rucknium: meshtastic bandwidth is likely too little.
syntheticbird: true
boog900: Yeah our current network security relies on addresses being limited, I don't think PoW is the answer though
syntheticbird: sadness then
interestingband: jeffro256: You don't get it; it's about being clear about who is partiicpant and who is not, and assumptions of the decentralized "game". And centralized way is what you all are doing by relying on ipv4 subnet.
rucknium: Recently, 10% of Tor exit nodes were acting maliciously. Then the Tor project just removed them from the directory. Monero can't do that.
ofrnxmr: * Bucket whitelist into into 256 buckets of 16 > rucknium: Yes. Do you want to explain what you patches do?
ofrnxmr: * bucket graylist into 256 buckets of 32
ofrnxmr: * dedup by /16 instead of /24
ofrnxmr: * test peers before evicting from whitelist
ofrnxmr: * one outbound peer per netgroup (IPv4 /16, IPv6 /32)[... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/nMCU6rgLd3BQR2l4 ]
rucknium: (outbound-adversaries-unreachable-status-quo-rucknium-ofrnxmr.png)
rucknium: ^ Here the Nyx attack eclipse results. The first two you've seen before. The bottom one is ofrnxmr 's patch.
interestingband: I didn't specify anywhere any assumption about underlaying network cleanet, tor, i2p. The approach with explicit weight linked to hashrate works with any network.
rucknium: It's stochastic, so just one run with one unreachable node doesn't show the large-sample average.
ofrnxmr: rucknium: This is if the attacker has each node in a separate /24
rucknium: Yes
ofrnxmr: Results look different if we concentrate the nodes, and likely different still if the ratio of goodto bad is less in our favor
rucknium: Now, when the attacker has 10 nodes in each /24. (Well, not "each" /24. But 10 per /24. Same number of adversary nodes total (1000) )
rucknium: (outbound-adversaries-unreachable-status-quo-rucknium-ofrnxmr-10per.png)
rucknium: In this scenario, even the unpatched node does OK after a while because it has rbrunner7 's subnet deduplication logic.
interestingband: jeffro256: And alternative p2p layer can be active in parallel with what is active atm, with explicit share of resources between them. This way you get benefits of both at the cost of 1/N resource per each channel of communication. LOL
rucknium: I'd say with the scenarios we have reviewed, my patch and ofrnxmr 's patch perform roughly the same. But ofrnxmr 's patch intends to handle more diverse adversary strategies, AFAIK.
interestingband: What are the assumptions of your model for simulation, and what is proven in your simulation ? or it's just statistics for different strategies ?
rucknium: It is reassuring that an adversary really needs to have IP addresses in separate subnets to perform the attack. Thanks to gingeropolous for helping patch a bug in monerosim to allow us to test the 10per-subnet scenario.
rucknium: interestingband: I explain that in the PR description: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/11527
rucknium: I assume that the adversary is carrying out the Shi et al. (2026) Nyx eclipse attack. There are other possible attacks, of course, that I don't model in the simulation.
interestingband: "TL;DR: An adversary with 1,000 or more IP addresses under its control ..." this part is solved with p2p based on weight linked to hashrate
interestingband: and then miners has weight, non miners has to rely on some miners or be a miner
interestingband: done
interestingband: whole PR can be wiped
gingeropolous: for a well-funded adversary hashrate isn't as expensive as we'd want it to be. trust me im a believer in PoW solves all the things but ....
rucknium: I solve it in fewer lines.
interestingband: Nah, it's the only mechanism to protect network and consensus: contribute to hashrate
interestingband: or rely on someone who does
boog900: > or rely on someone
interestingband: it's pointless to have p2p network disconnected from consensus
rucknium: Possible paths I see are: 1) My PR is reviewed and merged. 2) ofrnxmr make a PR and gets it reviewed and merged. 3) combination of both. 4) Do nothing. 5) Some other solution is developed.
interestingband: 5
sgp_: There are clearly downsides to prioritize by hashrate lol. But if you really want to propose this idea then write it up instead of interrupting
interestingband: and all prev options are not an option at all since they are analysed in the context of all monero components
ofrnxmr: rucknium: Ours arent mutually exclusive, mine can easily revert some of the changes from yours if mine is to be accepted later
interestingband: sgp_: I will
ofrnxmr: its much more lines than yours, of course, since it solves multiole issues that can arguably land on their own
interestingband: sgp_: And I'm not just interrupting, I've already said how to implement it so that both ways can coexist at the same time in backward compatible way
rucknium: vtnerd: I welcome you to review my PR on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/11527
ofrnxmr: I mean, monero doesnt typically like when you do 20 things in a single pr, so i might just start upstreaming certain commits that fix actual bugs, or fix bad behavior
rucknium: Anything else on this item for now?
interestingband: rucknium: What are the downsides of bigger lists ? Why not have it bigger or smaller ?
interestingband: "The defense scenario simulation increased the white_list size limit from 1,000 to 10,000. The limit was set arbitrarily. To be effective, the value in the simulation just needed to exceed the total count of the sum of honest and adversary nodes." So that constant is just a number to "fix" one attack scenario in your simulation, without validation of all other use cases or even proving anything at all ?
rucknium: Bigger list would mean slower performance in routines that operate on the list.
interestingband: Basically blind bit flip
interestingband: How many hours has been wasted on that ? LOL
rucknium: This research team that has written multiple papers about eclipsing the Monero network has suggested increasing the white_list size for over a year.
rucknium: Simpler fixes are better than complex fixes, ceteris paribus.
ofrnxmr: Mine increases the size because its not reasonable to bucket peers with a small 1000 whitelist
interestingband: rucknium: Those ppl successfully wasted time in a spirit of academic research with their useless formalism. That's the most important part of academic research that should not be adopted by MRL.
ofrnxmr: white = 256 * 16 = 4096, gray he 256 * 32 = 8192. Iirc bitcoin is 256 * 64 = 16384
ofrnxmr: Mine ^
rucknium: This attack is very practical and not just hypothetical (formal) at all.
rucknium: I'll end the meeting here. We can continue discussing after.
interestingband: Yes, but your approach to solve it is wrong and solution is bad
rucknium: Thanks everyone.
interestingband: The same as OSPEAD, real attack / problem, but solution is bad
boog900: interestingband: rucknium: picked this up after multiple reports about how weak our address book is, in the latest paper they did a real attack on our seed nodes. The solution stops their attack. Yes it does not go all the way to make our address book and p2p layer completely secure but it could certainly be a stop gap while you work on a whole extra P2P layer.
boog900: Thanks rucknium 🙏
syntheticbird: Thanks Rucknium
interestingband: boog900: My commetns mostly about goal and analysis of the solutions for the stated problems (problems are kinda known already). Bcs most solutions I don't like personally can be rejected by anyone else who is doing proper indenpendent/unbiased analysis of them.
sgp_: interestingband: just propose PoS or whatever with nodes with stake getting connection preference
syntheticbird: nah spirobel already have the PoS proposer role
interestingband: I was talking about aligning p2p with PoW consensus, do you see a difference ?
sgp_: no I don't pls explain. PoS = PoW
sgp_: we can't have 2 people championing similar ideas or else it might make progress
interestingband: sgp_: Please make sure that you are not touching any code with this depth of understanding of reality.
boog900: Its easy to say it would be better to do XYZ, but until XYZ is done all we have is Ruck's PR.
sgp_: yeah ruck's is a trivial fix with clear immediate benefits. it's not meant to be a comprehensive solution
jpk68: lmfao
syntheticbird: jpk68: ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh
jpk68: sgp_: ^
jpk68: That's what I meant to reply to, oops
syntheticbird: Don't say oops. Impose your mistakes.
gingeropolous: interestingband: if you wanna read the great stat machines output from your entropy: https://github.com/Fountain5405/monerosim/blob/hashrate-gating/README.md
syntheticbird: inb4 your sim sucks because you didn't specify things correctly and its all your fault
syntheticbird: also I have a working prototype that is much better
gingeropolous: its not even a sim at this point, just arithmetic.
syntheticbird: gingeropolous: don't underestimate one's blindness in front of a proof
interestingband: boog900: Btw, I think approach with independent ref implementation is a nice way forward, but it can be done faster I think than how it's going with cuprate atm.
spirobel: reductive > syntheticbird: nah spirobel already have the PoS proposer role
gingeropolous: although i do like what the bot came up with as an alternative sorta based on it: "5a. Inbound connections beyond a per-/16 quota pay a workshare per handshake"
syntheticbird: spirobel: how so? You are very into proposing PoS. Does that remove any of your other accomplishment?
syntheticbird: no
interestingband: syntheticbird: top-bottom analysis doesn't require looking into simulation numbers, since my comment was about simulation model setup and it's assumptions.
spirobel: syntheticbird: we talked extensively about this. People can just read the comments i made back then and left on the PoS CCS
syntheticbird: well ok sorry for the joke
boog900: interestingband: Nice 👍️
syntheticbird: interestingband: how?
interestingband: sgp_: Atm There are 2 approaches for the best consensus, and it's either PoW (but it requires diff logic around RandomX) or something called proof-of-pledge based on physical devices with real pledge inside, so it's not a ephemeral PoS with nothing at stake, but it's a stake per participant, and it looks like it can't be implemented in reality due to some fundamental reasons.
boog900: syntheticbird: Just yolo slop it all
interestingband: syntheticbird: How ? 1. stop writing prose about code, and write code, 2. ...
syntheticbird: interestingband: That's my bad. I was expecting some constructive from your mouth but ig I set the bar too high.
boog900: You know a lot about writing code and not talking right?
interestingband: syntheticbird: Nah, i've just commented about your blog post about code, it's a waste of time
syntheticbird: interestingband: just imagine if I gave a fuck
syntheticbird: about your opinion
syntheticbird: imagine
sgp_: ooh this pledge thing sounds fun, is it like the pledge of allegiance to monero. nodes need to prove they are true people who have sworn allegiance, and aren't a bad guy. so kinda like a permissioned network cult, but cool
interestingband: LOL
gingeropolous: instead of getting hostile i recommend the ignore feature of this glorious technology
syntheticbird: sgp_: putting symbolism on the protocol like that would be hilarious
sgp_: ok i'll stop sorry. put up or shut up with a written, organized, well-reasoned proposal
sgp_: until then I don't care about comments about some mythical PoW node selection basis
interestingband: sgp_: Nah, it's about real resource backing digital token, any real resource locked in a box
gingeropolous: im tellin yah, there might be something in the botslop: " Inbound connections beyond a per-/16 quota pay a workshare per handshake"
interestingband: sgp_: In the context of MRL, there is a need for a formal proof for cryptography, but atm it's just audits with "opninions", so is your advice applicable to your own efforst or no ?
interestingband: Anyway, I'm talking about research relevant for monero, it doesn't contradict with the purpose of MRL
sgp_: uh, no
sgp_: https://magicgrants.org/2026/09/29/Divisors-in-Monero
sgp_: see "The Latest Development: zkSecurity's Formal Verification"
interestingband: I can't submit CCS proposal due to downtime, and any work upfront isn't eligible for funding, so that's why it's private atm > sgp_: ok i'll stop sorry. put up or shut up with a written, organized, well-reasoned proposal
sgp_: and also see "What Formal Verification Doesn't Tell Us"
interestingband: sgp_: That one is nice, I even reacted to your comment about it back then. But it's not enough, and it's just 1 audit
interestingband: sgp_: My entry is effect in reality, I never chase goals that are disconnected from reality. I guess my formal verification is a bit different from what is done by others.
syntheticbird: interestingband: You can there is a pastebin for it
interestingband: operations CCS means all types of participants can interact with each other, offline archive / queue of proposals isn't operational CCS
interestingband: syntheticbird: I hope you are not touching any critical code with this depth of understanding of reality.
syntheticbird: ^ > interestingband: Please make sure that you are not touching any code with this depth of understanding of reality.
syntheticbird: sense of humor or genuinely low IQ ?
interestingband: I've never reviewed any code written by you, but I just don't know any human who can solve complex problems with code and like to write prose about code at the same time.
syntheticbird: I need to frame this message on my wall
syntheticbird: this is peak comedy
interestingband: https://github.com/Cuprate/cuprate/pull/100 https://github.com/Cuprate/cuprate/pull/6, 2 PRs where you add relatively big change and then wipe it later, so it doesn't look like I'm wrong, LOL
interestingband: I don't argue about your ability to write prose, you are probably good at it
rucknium: This conversation can be moved to #monero-research-lounge:monero.social
thomasbuilds: yeah u guys need to move from the lab and go sit on the long chairs
ofrnxmr: Ok, we dont needthe echo
thomasbuilds: arguing in the lab can break a sample and boom next corona virus comes out
interestingband: rucknium: ok, I have nothing more to add on that topic atm
https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20261028#c717146
nevent1q…el0t

LOL

2026-10-29T17:54:30Z

In reply to nevent1q…tsvm
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LOL

Wer kann, der kann.

2026-10-29T17:36:35Z

In reply to nevent1q…r474
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Wer kann, der kann.

Carrot (Monero's new address upgrade) is ready for review! ...

2026-10-29T17:53:32Z

Carrot (Monero's new address upgrade) is ready for review! Payment proofs still work, except internal self-sends. Workaround: send to yourself externally.

quoting
nevent1q…f2xe
jeffro256 reported that the Carrot spec and implementation are ready for review. Spec: https://github.com/jeffro256/carrot/pull/16 ; impl: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9559. InProofs continue to work for incoming payments; OutProofs work for external outgoing payments. For self-sends, InProofs take a different form (leaking that the enote is internal) and there are no OutProofs. External self-sends in >2-out txs can still have both. The main UX impact is limited to internal enotes. rucknium noted a potential cryptographic audit-trail impact for self-sends and asked whether Carrot view keys still allow a full trail. jeffro256 clarified that without tx-specific secrets (or a new derivation from permanent secrets), outgoing information is lost beyond total amount per tx; giving up the view-balance secret makes the PR 16 change moot. OutProofs can always be made for external enotes (even to oneself). The workaround of external self-sends preserves most current UX. Participants viewed the outcome as reasonable.

rucknium: 3. get_tx_key/check_tx_key doxes sender in 2-out tx (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/11586).
rucknium: Is jeffro256 here?
rucknium: Anything to discuss on this item for now?
jeffro256: Yes , the spec and the impl are ready for review
jeffro256: I'll drop links rn
jeffro256: Spec: https://github.com/jeffro256/carrot/pull/16
jeffro256: impl: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9559
jeffro256: If tevador is here, I'd like to ask whether he sees any incompatibilities of these changes w/ Jamtis
jeffro256: Maybe not, but good review from any parties would be appreiated
jpk68: My bad for the likely uninformed question, but what was the trade-off for the chosen fix, again? Was there an option found to not slow down scanning or remove Janus attack protection?
jeffro256: Good question. InProofs still work for incoming payments. OutProofs still work for external outgoing payments. There is also InProofs possible for selfsends, but they take on a different form. I.e. they leak to the verifier whether the enote is internal.
jpk68: Ah, good to know, thanks. So essentially, the only disadvantage is with self-sends (?)
jeffro256: Yes
jeffro256: Which IDK how often InProofs/Outproofs are used for self-sends, but I'd like to preserve most of the UX if possible even if I never use it
jeffro256: But yeah the main difference is for internal enotes only: no OutProofs, and InProofs look different.
jeffro256: https://xkcd.com/1172/
jeffro256: Although not explicitly recommended by the spec, nothing prevents you from making external enotes to yourself in >2-out txs and having both OutProofs and InProofs like today
rucknium: The possible UX impact is a cryptographic audit trail when you have a self-send somewhere in the trail? Can you still get the full trail with the Carrot view keys?
jeffro256: Define "full trail"
rucknium: I get some XMR. I self-send one or more times. I send it back out to someone.
jeffro256: W/o tx-specific secrets, or a new way to derive tx-specific secrets from your permanent account secrets, then outgoing information is lost, besides total amount per tx
rucknium: Does the lack of outproofs for self-sends affect me?
jeffro256: If you are giving up view-balance secret anyway, then no. The change in PR 16 is moot
jeffro256: You can always make OutProofs for external enotes
jeffro256: Even if they go to yourself
jpk68: As in, an external wallet also controlled by you?
rucknium: Thanks for coming up with the work-around. Seems like a good outcome.
jeffro256: jpk68: Any wallet: current wallet, other wallet held by you, or other entity with unknown key material
jeffro256: Same situation as current. Any "OutProof" you verify doesn't actually mean that the funds left custody of the person making an OutProof
https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20261028#c717056
nevent1q…jq6a

Nostr event nevent1qqsqzskg8x6ekzd0gpzy3mlen94luywmv60vvpqywfv3e7u8yyxkaxspx3mhxue69uhkuetjdaehgu3w0pkhytnjda3kkue0dehhxarj8fhx2un0wd68ytncd4ezuun0vd4hxtm8dakxvq3ql5sga6xg72phsz5422ykujprejwud075ggrr3z2hwyrfgr7eylqshy63au

2026-10-29T17:13:12Z

In reply to nevent1q…qzzq
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It's a tablet, not a phone. I am very fast with the touch ...

2026-10-29T17:10:05Z

In reply to nevent1q…jnft
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It's a tablet, not a phone. I am very fast with the touch screen keyboard, but this is even faster.