Nostr notes by fiatjaf

The contact list situation is indeed insane.

2026-10-27T13:22:37Z

In reply to nevent1q…89tv
_________________________

The contact list situation is indeed insane.

"rewind" napp: ...

2026-10-27T13:20:59Z

"rewind" napp:

What are you testing?

2026-10-27T12:31:12Z

In reply to nevent1q…0lw3
_________________________

What are you testing?

Nostr event nevent1qqsgj6xn79l75smlclu0kx83nnkc05746xjga8g3ff3wjcazga9jlqqzyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze60k4wyh

2026-10-27T02:06:03Z

In reply to nevent1q…0sjs
_________________________

https://nostrapps.com/#space=napp-maker&app=naddr1qvzqqqyf8gpzqwlsccluhy6xxsr6l9a9uhhxf75g85g8a709tprjcn4e42h053vaqydhwumn8ghj7argv4nx7un9wd6zumn0wd68yvfwvdhk6tcpz4mhxue69uhkyctnwdcxjum5dakzummjvuhszxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0qyd8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgunpwpc8xtnrdakj7qq2deshqupdd4skketj0h9qn5

Vibecoding napps inside a napp, because this is what people want, ...

2026-10-27T02:02:38Z

Vibecoding napps inside a napp, because this is what people want, right?

Did I say that? I think maybe what I was trying to say is that it ...

2026-10-26T13:41:09Z

In reply to nevent1q…qz77
_________________________

Did I say that?

I think maybe what I was trying to say is that it needed to be more used so small and big issues were uncovered and fixed according to real world usage, but I don't know.

I wouldn't recommend that you just keep developing it alone every day for 3 months without it being used concretely in the real world.

I don't know, could have been any other character, it's a ...

2026-10-26T13:39:29Z

In reply to nevent1q…6v6s
_________________________

I don't know, could have been any other character, it's a convention.

@npub1jlr…ynqn The slash commands spec ...

2026-10-26T12:37:42Z

hodlbod (npub1jlr…ynqn) The slash commands spec https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/CD.md doesn't allow for slash commands in reply to kind:9 messages in groups, does it?

Because the slash command must begin on index 0 of content, but kind:9 replies begin with a reference to the message being replied to.

What is the solution?

@npub1der…xzpc I am not against UX work. Just to clarify, ...

2026-10-25T16:04:46Z

Gigi (npub1der…xzpc) I am not against UX work. Just to clarify, because maybe other people are misunderstanding me based on few random sarcastic comments:

I dislike what some people commonly refer to as "UX", which is just pure status quo bias and survivorship bias.

They think that because X or TikTok or whatever works in one way and are successful currently that is the "best UX" today and that has to be copied, because that's what people want and that's the definition of easy. They probably do it unconsciously.

In fact what happens is that these platforms are successful for many other reasons and they happen to have some type of UX (survivorship bias). They have often very bad UX in many aspects, but everybody is already so used to these they don't count those as negative anymore (status quo bias), which is expected, but the professional UX designer should be able to see through this. Also because their own designers suffer from the same biases they end up copying each other and they become all similar.

There is also the issue of regulatory constraints and technological constraints they have, which Nostr apps don't, so that should be a good thing and a sign that we have to experiment with other UXes that could be much better.

Of course, Nostr also has other constraints, which are basically that the user has to be aware of keys and relays in some way or another, but because people are so deep into their status quo bias they refuse to see this as an interesting challenge and an opportunity for general enlightement, they prefer to try to hide it from themselves and from others, which benefits no one as such things are necessary and will necessarily have to reappear eventually if anything will work at all, so it's much better to face them as soon as possible.

quoting
nevent1q…xdyq
39: The Nostr Office Just Works w/ Thomas
https://haven.dergigi.com/b111f6624c5a16cd2894eb692507ad7fb92d9b22943fda8760fd05b1f5f00db9.m4a
#NoSolutions

This is a good summary, thank you.

2026-10-25T00:45:28Z

In reply to nevent1q…tutg
_________________________

This is a good summary, thank you.

In what days wasn't it a silly take?

2026-10-24T23:48:08Z

In reply to nevent1q…5hxr
_________________________

In what days wasn't it a silly take?

I think all the evidence is just 2 or 3 references in Roman books ...

2026-10-24T23:35:14Z

In reply to nevent1q…uflt
_________________________

I think all the evidence is just 2 or 3 references in Roman books that are very likely to be implants by later Christians.

Some things that come to my mind: If some information is ...

2026-10-24T23:19:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…7pju
_________________________

Some things that come to my mind:

If some information is accessible to anyone from anywhere then it's much less valuable.

There are many things people are more comfortable sharing if they don't expect it to spread through the entire world and be on the public record forever.

It's much more cool to be local-only.

Yes, we can. As someone said once.

2026-10-24T22:51:49Z

In reply to nevent1q…ret5
_________________________

Yes, we can.

As someone said once.

If it's a critical vulnerability I won't look until you ...

2026-10-24T22:51:01Z

In reply to nevent1q…jakc
_________________________

If it's a critical vulnerability I won't look until you file a CVE.

But really, what is the point of this CVE madness? I really don't get how people fall for these bureaucratic scams.

I'm waiting for the commotion that will happen when someone ...

2026-10-24T13:04:07Z

I'm waiting for the commotion that will happen when someone manage to use an AI to hack a satellite.

quoting
nevent1q…50hv
Satellites continue to be useless except for the governments that want to surveil, enslave and control you.

nevent1q…t8rr

Half right? #nevent1q…tu83

2026-10-24T13:02:05Z

In reply to nevent1q…yeqs
_________________________

Half right?

quoting nevent1q…tu83
Darwin was wrong and Jesus did not exist.

I tried it with two devices, one can see notes from the other, ...

2026-10-24T12:34:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…xsyj
_________________________

I tried it with two devices, one can see notes from the other, but I had to peer them first. So I were to add someone else I would also have to peer with them, right? And then they would be able to see anything my other device had written that I was transporting?

This is pretty cool, but what is the "community" aspect of it? I mean, it is just "people I know and the people they know and the other people those know", not really a well-defined "community", right?

Just confirming if I got it right, because I've always wanted an app like this (although imagining that enough people will use it to make it good is beyond my dreams at this point).

What is this magic signature scheme that prevents universal ...

2026-10-23T22:05:15Z

In reply to nevent1q…xsyj
_________________________

What is this magic signature scheme that prevents universal verifiability? I don't understand.

Nostr event nevent1qqstuy468zz0j0zqq008cps7msyn4mg026lsvvhzu2ujj5mk5ml69fqzyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze6cwflmc

2026-10-23T02:16:32Z

In reply to nevent1q…3wam
_________________________

https://nostrapps.com/#space=space-3&app=naddr1qvzqqqyf8gpzqwlsccluhy6xxsr6l9a9uhhxf75g85g8a709tprjcn4e42h053vaqyd8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgunpwpc8xtnrdakj7qfqwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3exzurswvhxxmmd9ac82cnvd93szxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0qy2hwumn8ghj7cnpwdehq6tnw3hkctn0wfnj7qqvvdhkcmmjv4jz6en9v4jqcuzn0v

Oh, right. Yes, don't use Pomegranate for that. Use NIP-4E ...

2026-10-23T01:17:34Z

In reply to nevent1q…rjc5
_________________________

Oh, right. Yes, don't use Pomegranate for that. Use NIP-4E instead.

Why are you signing thousands of events?

2026-10-23T01:15:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…jd6v
_________________________

Why are you signing thousands of events?

Nostr event nevent1qqsthwqjpj6nz99mmewrmumuggkyce0mhnktwsw0snny34p2wyfeejgzyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze6eqzegq

2026-10-23T01:15:30Z

It is true, but @npub1nmr…yha8 answered you. I was waiting for ...

2026-10-23T01:07:54Z

In reply to nevent1q…sntq
_________________________

It is true, but balas (npub1nmr…yha8) answered you. I was waiting for your answer to him.

Pomegranate is not for everyone. The great thing about Nostr is ...

2026-10-23T00:44:38Z

In reply to nevent1q…at30
_________________________

Pomegranate is not for everyone. The great thing about Nostr is that there are multiple options for how to sign your notes and one person doesn't have to care about what methods the others used.

Yes, you can export the key anytime.

It is perfectly possible for an operator to independently get ...

2026-10-23T00:32:11Z

In reply to nevent1q…zhmm
_________________________

It is perfectly possible for an operator to independently get your approval, or apply a rate-limit, a time limit, a kind check, anything it wants. There are currently two implementations of operator servers out there, but there could be many other variations and people could pick the ones they prefer. If Nostr and Pomegranate get more popular I expect to see lots of these servers out there with different policies so everybody can be happy.

You trust it with the ability to sign stuff on your behalf, but ...

2026-10-23T00:29:44Z

In reply to nevent1q…zhmm
_________________________

You trust it with the ability to sign stuff on your behalf, but it doesn't get your key. You can remove its access anytime you want.

The entire point is to allow a kind of delegation that doesn't require lending your key to others, nor breaking the network (other people don't have to know you've setup some arcane and stupid delegation mechanism). But yes, like any delegation mechanism (and any of the dozens of delegation proposals we've seen in Nostr) at the time you delegate to someone, they are trusted to some extent.

The magic of Pomegranate is that you can revoke that trust any time you want.

Latency is only a problem if you are signing dozens of events per ...

2026-10-23T00:26:50Z

In reply to nevent1q…ptf5
_________________________

Latency is only a problem if you are signing dozens of events per second. Pomegranate is made for humans.

And encryption methods are supported, but they're unsafe, slow and shouldn't be used, it would be awful. NIP-4E is the only solution here.

Reconstructing the private key locally is not encouraged. The entire point is to make clients not have access to the key.

If only Elon Musk could buy Microsoft, that would solve all of ...

2026-10-20T18:53:22Z

In reply to nevent1q…g7pz
_________________________

If only Elon Musk could buy Microsoft, that would solve all of our problems, right?

Are you doing this on an iPhone in lockdown mode maybe?

2026-10-20T03:43:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…mkcs
_________________________

Are you doing this on an iPhone in lockdown mode maybe?

A napp showing suggestions of who to follow for 3 different ...

2026-10-19T16:32:50Z

A napp showing suggestions of who to follow for 3 different profiles:

This link should open it for you if all goes right:
https://nostrapps.com/#space=space-1&app=naddr1qvzqqqyf8gpzqwlsccluhy6xxsr6l9a9uhhxf75g85g8a709tprjcn4e42h053vaqyd8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgunpwpc8xtnrdakj7qfqwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3exzurswvhxxmmd9ac82cnvd93szxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0qy2hwumn8ghj7cnpwdehq6tnw3hkctn0wfnj7qq3wd6kwem9wd6x2epdvehkcmr0waes8ulryl

Thank you for trying it. Do you have more feedback on things that ...

2026-10-19T16:32:07Z

In reply to nevent1q…xkgs
_________________________

Thank you for trying it.

Do you have more feedback on things that it could have or something?

I'll take grandiose suggestions and crazy ideas, but the bug reports I'll leave for balas (npub1nmr…yha8).

This link should open it for you: ...

2026-10-19T14:10:02Z

This link should open it for you: https://nostrapps.com/#space=space-1&app=naddr1qvzqqqyf8gpzqwlsccluhy6xxsr6l9a9uhhxf75g85g8a709tprjcn4e42h053vaqyd8wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnwdaehgunpwpc8xtnrdakj7qfqwaehxw309aex2mrp0yhxummnw3exzurswvhxxmmd9ac82cnvd93szxnhwden5te0wpuhyctdd9jzuenfv96x5ctx9e3k7mf0qy2hwumn8ghj7cnpwdehq6tnw3hkctn0wfnj7qqtvaex7atswd68yetpd5csqs7k

Does it work?

quoting
nevent1q…qg6s
GroupStream:

This one is cool.

Use Pomegranate. #nevent1q…cdff

2026-10-19T13:20:07Z

Use Pomegranate.

quoting
nevent1q…cdff
Breakfast 💜🥣
What, in your opinion, is the easiest way to open a pomegranate, without ending up with stains everywhere? 😅

#pomegranate #rawvegan #breakfast #health

Why?

2026-10-19T01:09:36Z

In reply to nevent1q…a3fx
_________________________

Why?

If you're not tired of hearing about Nostr here's another ...

2026-10-18T21:31:51Z

If you're not tired of hearing about Nostr here's another interview from Constant (npub1t6j…ksrw) with good insights and explanations from angles you hadn't considered on how Nostr solves problems you hadn't realized: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43IuHC_rDh0 (ignore the slop cover).

Nostr event nevent1qqsguncqhskr7au2rq62cxf7whnllq52rtsyceqqdff0rnnzfjlyz6szyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze60zlj2v

2026-10-18T00:33:57Z

Publishing a note from the Drafts napp on Verdana.

Trending notes napp (based on interactions from people you follow ...

2026-10-17T01:28:18Z

Trending notes napp (based on interactions from people you follow and a weird algorithm I made up):

Inactive follows napp: ...

2026-10-17T01:27:21Z

Inactive follows napp:

Alphaama is back again, now on Verdana. ...

2026-10-16T14:40:08Z

Alphaama is back again, now on Verdana.

Many bugs, but that's because Android is awful. Will fix, but ...

2026-10-15T16:55:52Z

In reply to nevent1q…yf93
_________________________

Many bugs, but that's because Android is awful. Will fix, but try Verdana on the desktop if you are truly wise.

I'm sorry for the Asciidoc pain. But do you think there's ...

2026-10-15T16:32:11Z

In reply to nevent1q…czzn
_________________________

I'm sorry for the Asciidoc pain.

But do you think there's any chance a decentralized wiki will have any chance in the world of AI?

Have you tried https://lnvps.com/ by @npub1v0l…qj49?

2026-10-15T11:39:17Z

In reply to nevent1q…fh65
_________________________

Have you tried https://lnvps.com/ by Kieran (npub1v0l…qj49)?

Even if the Central dies if enough of the operators are online ...

2026-10-15T11:03:56Z

In reply to nevent1q…r30v
_________________________

Even if the Central dies if enough of the operators are online they can still recover their key. Your clients can make it easier for them if necessary.

But of course there is no magical solution that fixes everything at the same time.

I'm glad I was able to confuse you.

2026-10-15T03:25:11Z

In reply to nevent1q…x039
_________________________

I'm glad I was able to confuse you.

Nostr event nevent1qqsdrlv38sq8v6apcxndwjvymxtmanqa97zzegm4ujxkgrdj7y8zhtszyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze62y6n8c

2026-10-15T01:05:11Z

quoting
nevent1q…c5wv
Verdana is available on Zapstore now and you can be the first to download! https://zapstore.dev/apps/com.verdana.app

(I didn't try, so let me know if the download works.)

nevent1q…925w

Verdana is available on Zapstore now and you can be the first to ...

2026-10-14T18:42:20Z

Verdana is available on Zapstore now and you can be the first to download! https://zapstore.dev/apps/com.verdana.app

(I didn't try, so let me know if the download works.)

quoting
nevent1q…925w
I'm working on a new operating system for Nostr, it's called Verdana (a tribute to the famous Slovenian alpine ski racer Ana Drev).

Just kidding, it's only a program. But the idea is that you install a bunch of very micro apps that do one thing only and compose your own client, in a way, by combining them. They are web apps and run in webviews, each in its own independent window, but they have access to a common database, a centralized engine that fetches feeds of notes from profiles efficiently, a common signer and many other Nostr helpers.

And of course they also have access to each other, by invoking actions on other apps and potentially getting responses back.

If you are brave and wants to help, please try to download a binary from https://github.com/fiatjaf/verdana/actions/runs/36899284292 (or go to the most recent) or build it from source.

Here's a bunch of microapps if you want some inspiration: naddr1qv…uz22.

There are many things to do still. There is an Android app too that works similarly, but it's currently broken. And the "build your own client" needs more configurability aside from the manual picking of apps. But the desktop app has some cool things already, like the ability to create bundles of apps that you start from a shortcut.

In the near future it would be nice to have someone share a big bundle of configuration and apps with others, so people are onboarded to Nostr with an experience and a set of microapps already pre-curated by a friend or some community leader; and later they learn how to customize things their own way. So this would be like a more flexible version of https://hallway.fiatjaf.com/.

See, @npub1utx…50e8? I was right, we should embrace this UX.

2026-10-14T18:39:49Z

In reply to nevent1q…a6pp
_________________________

See, utxo the webmaster 🧑‍💻🍁 (npub1utx…50e8)? I was right, we should embrace this UX.

Just to clarify the terms I was using: - Operator: the servers ...

2026-10-14T18:23:56Z

In reply to nevent1q…4aff
_________________________

Just to clarify the terms I was using:

- Operator: the servers that get shards of the keys -- your key could be split in 5 shards and each of these shards be with with one of these, then you need 3 of them to participate in order to perform a signature or recover the key, for example.
- Central: the server that coordinates with the operators and offers a NIP-46 bunker interface for Nostr clients to connect to.

There is a gimmick that works today: when you create your Pomegranate stuff with one of the Centrals you publish an event with a hash of your email address and that Central's URL. This way even if you connect to the wrong Central when logging in to a different client that client can still learn your email address and query some public relays what is your actual Central URL, and log you in to that one instead (you'll have to click to authorize again probably).

This scheme wasn't super well-thought, so maybe it has some flaws, but it works. So a world with multiple Centrals is already possible.

I read this note and ...

2026-10-14T12:35:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…zdpq
_________________________

I read this note and https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/issues/2500, which I assume are related.

I'm still confused about what you're proposing. What is the basic idea in one sentence?

(It doesn't help that I can't see the note you're replying to, and I'm not sure I want to do that.)

/translate@@npub1gf0…6n2l english

2026-10-14T12:28:17Z

In reply to nevent1q…xhhu
_________________________

/translate@translator_nbot (npub1gf0…6n2l) english

I didn't even know you were running an operator. This is ...

2026-10-14T12:13:22Z

In reply to nevent1q…7mdu
_________________________

I didn't even know you were running an operator.

This is another small issue: app developers have to pick operators for the users (or allow users to manually type). Should we start including yours on apps everywhere?

You don't need a bot to do that. The bot was just a hack ...

2026-10-14T12:11:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…jmkg
_________________________

You don't need a bot to do that. The bot was just a hack because of Telegram's closed ecosystem. On Nostr the correct way to do that type of stuff is by charging via relays (first you must choose the relays that allow you to do it).

No. But are you looking for purely an overlay network on top of ...

2026-10-14T02:09:17Z

In reply to nevent1q…zved
_________________________

No. But are you looking for purely an overlay network on top of the current internet or a new internet? FIPS was interesting to me because it at least claimed to be for replacing the current internet (by which I mean it is supposed to work on top of physical links), although now I see people treating it just as an overlay network like Tor, which is sad.

I had this idea a long time ago of how to connect and route between mesh networks potentially scaling through the entire globe, but I'm thinking here only about physical links and a new internet:

quoting naddr1qq…smcd

a way to do an open and permissionless mesh network

I don't have much experience with that so maybe this is all a stupid nonsense, but I think routing in mesh networks (by which I mean all the software that exists out there for creating smallish mesh networks and the real-world projects that use them and effectively have a community of people that connect to each other in some geographical area or a virtual network that uses the underlying internet) is never scalable. It basically always requires all the nodes to keep a full view of the network in order to route packages -- and often there is no incentive for them to do that either. And then the thing is easily spammable but either that problem doesn't happen because the mesh never gets big enough or it has a central committee that decides who can join.

The biggest example is, of course, the big ICANN-controlled IP network, that gets all the negatives of being centrally controlled while weirdly getting also all the negatives of being a kinda-decentralized peer-to-peer ad-hoc network between indepent ISPs.

A good solution that makes kinda-decentralized (at least open and permissionless) routing possible and replaces node addresses with pubkeys could get make it possible for us to get rid of ICANN. Once that is done, ad-hoc peering would become more seamless and ISPs wouldn't have to be so big and clunky, they could slowly split, and non-comercial entities could join the party too by basically just plugging a cable or pointing an antenna to the correct place.

What is it?

One very dumb solution that came to my mind that has a chance of working is one in which each node as a keypair and to be reachable by others they announce their address -- for example, using some kind of DNS (on a [spacechain]?) or by directly communicating their address through some other means -- as their public key plus some "routing hints".

The routing hints are just pubkeys of other nodes known to be routers. Known to whom? Well, this would require some schelling points to naturally appear and the network would be ordered around them, but you are never forced to use them, you have to include as many routing hints as required to ensure that all the people you want to connect to you will eventually be able to, but nothing is ever 100% guaranteed.

Such network could probably work with a pure onion routing scheme with all its privacy benefits in some cases; degrading to a trampoline onion routing scheme otherwise, which means it will just be slightly less private the more trampolines you have to use. And every node has to keep track of just a set of routes from them to a bunch of known routers (or trampolines, which in my mind are mostly the same nodes, but are slightly different roles).

Example

Suppose A is trying to connect to B.

A is a home computer in the city of Évora, Portugal.

B is a home computer in the city of Udine, Italy.

There is a route (we, the narrator, know) between them that goes like this:

A--Ev--Li--Al--Ro--Sm--Ve--Ud--B, in which Ev means the node of an ISP in Évora which directly serves A, Li means a big node in Lisboa, Al a node in Algiers, Ro a node in Rome, Sm a node in San Marino, Ve a node in Venice and Ud a gateway node in the mesh of Udine to which B is connected.

There could be many other routes, but we'll ignore them for now.

B could have published his address as <pubkey-B>?hint=<pubkey-Ud>,<pubkey-Ve>,<pubkey-Sm>,<pubkey-Ro>, which would mean A would only have to know a route from Ev up to Ro.

If Ro is known to be a big router, A could easily have a route cached there, and could discover other routes by asking around every now and then too. It wouldn't take a lot of space to have routes cached to some thousands of different known big nodes like that. Then A can just wrap an onion with all the coordinates and the message inside and hand it to Ev and it would reach B. Inside the message she would also include the full route for a message to be sent back.

However, even if A doesn't have a route to Ro, it could still hope that Li would have, then she could make a special "trampoline" onion that goes Ev--Li and then when Li receives it it sees a request to forward the next packet to Ro, so Li has the freedom to choose a route from itself to Ro (as long as it knows Ro, of course) and from there A's message continues.

The same trampolining can exist on B's side, if B doesn't have a route from Ud to Ro, but knows Ro is likely to have one up to Ud -- or if B feels it's not worth including so many hints when most big nodes will have routes to Ud, for example, it can publish his address as <pubkey-B>?hint=<pubkey-Ud>*<pubkey-Ro> meaning that one should find a route up to Ro and from there ask Ro to trampoline it up to Ud.

Or, if B doesn't expect Ud to be very well-known, but Sm yes, then it could do <pubkey-B>?hint=<pubkey-Ud>,<pubkey-Sm>*<pubkey-Ro>. Again, this is just one hint, in practice it would have to have a lot (maybe 10, 20?) other hints, in a tree structure that this querystring syntax isn't very suited for encoding:
Ud
  Tr
    Pu
      Za
    Li

  Sm
    *
      Ro
      Ba
  Mi
    La
      Ge
    *
      Mo
    Tu
(Remember, we're using city name abbreviations here, but each of these would be a specific node, with a specific public key, supposed for the example to be in such a city, but nothing prevents them from being in different cities or that multiple nodes exist in the same city.)

Summary

Basically packets go from node to node, in a sequence established by the sender -- with optional trampolines in between -- until they get to the target. Target responds in the same route. Nodes can be anyone. Focal points form around big nodes, but they can be replaced easily, the receivers just have to stop using them in their hints, so the network is flexible and open.

I have no idea of how bad this idea is, because I couldn't find anyone to criticize it or any other idea to compare it to and I have zero experience with any of this.

As far as I know all the mesh networks in the world are sadly much less ambitious than I want: they're all happy to just be a local thing. And in some cases they clearly state that their routing algorithms don't scale at all (they're either based on a centralized supernode, or nodes flooding the network with packets, or on everybody keeping a routing table of the entire network locally).

Projects like Meshtastic are just a stupid psyop. They get people to be excited about a completely useless thing, thinking they are contributing to creating a new decentralized internet, and that their stupid toy is actually a step towards that, but in fact it can never be more than that toy.

What I wanted to see was an actual meshnet project that employed some routing algorithm capable of easily adapting to new nodes joining freely, but also adapting to a new mesh network being connected by some new node, and then some other mesh connects to that, and so on, until you're able to route a message to someone a thousand miles away.

I think my method above works, and it is not magic because it has this important tradeoff: you can't route only with keys, i.e. your address can't be just your key like all these other projects do, you also need route hints in the address. It's like using an nprofile instead of an npub.

My method needs a lot of flushing, though. All the details are unspecified. And it would probably not work with any existing base network software, as it wouldn't deal with IP addresses at all (addresses would be much bigger than even IPv6 can support). It also needs a name, then we would have to adapt TCP and UDP to work on top of it (the name is important so we can call it TCP/<name> thing). I also didn't think about the incentives for routing at all.

#nevent1q…l6m0

2026-10-14T00:44:14Z

In reply to nevent1q…cu8h
_________________________

quoting nevent1q…l6m0
What do we have more on Nostr?

1) users
2) DM standards
3) slop websites
4) relay implementations by mattn (npub1937…haj6)

Pomegranate is pretty fast, and it doesn't require reliable ...

2026-10-14T00:05:13Z

In reply to nevent1q…wgem
_________________________

Pomegranate is pretty fast, and it doesn't require reliable relays. It is a single request to the single central server itself, which fakes as a relay but it's actually the server that does the signing (coordination) directly, and it responds with the signed event, so it doesn't use a lot of bandwidth either.

You shard your key in many parts and give it to semi-trusted ...

2026-10-14T00:03:10Z

In reply to nevent1q…xjqr
_________________________

You shard your key in many parts and give it to semi-trusted operators to sign stuff in your behalf.

Later you need to be able to contact these operators to get their shards back so you can rebuild your key, or ask them to delete them. So you need an alternative authentication mechanism.

Doesn't have to be Google, as I said above, it can be any other method, but Google was easy enough to start with and would reach lots of people.

It's ridiculous how ineffective and unnerving phones are, ...

2026-10-13T23:59:13Z

In reply to nevent1q…hu0d
_________________________

It's ridiculous how ineffective and unnerving phones are, they are optimized for browsing garbage and shutting down your brain.

When are we going to be able to vibecode a dumbphone with exactly the features we need?

Vibecoding software is useless, give me vibecoded hardware, please.

I was trying to use a dumbphone recently. It worked quite well, except that I couldn't block numbers, so I got spam-called a lot. I wish it had this one extra feature.

Would also be nice to have a way to send voice messages through the internet, using some chat app, to some selected few contacts. Without having to include the entire chat app in the phone. I don't know, some very restricted features like that.

And they say we don't have enough addictive content. ...

2026-10-13T23:53:23Z

And they say we don't have enough addictive content.

quoting
nevent1q…tyuz
Cows coming in

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww 4

2026-10-13T23:52:32Z

In reply to nevent1q…w42v
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww) 4

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww 2

2026-10-13T23:52:18Z

In reply to nevent1q…4z73
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww) 2

It's very cool that they made an amusement park on it, but ...

2026-10-13T23:51:57Z

In reply to nevent1q…w42v
_________________________

It's very cool that they made an amusement park on it, but still the last picture looks very depressing with these ugly government-style buildings.

They are pretty similar indeed. But the original in which the ...

2026-10-13T23:49:05Z

In reply to nevent1q…pvh7
_________________________

They are pretty similar indeed. But the original in which the trianglized version was based is quite disturbing. The colors, and the format of the thing. Yours is more humane.

I don't have use for these things right now, but I'm ...

2026-10-13T23:45:22Z

In reply to nevent1q…t0wk
_________________________

I don't have use for these things right now, but I'm trying to understand the rationale for having the launcher.

Is the idea that other people will also publish apps compatible with it? What benefit does the launcher add in comparison to having each app be its own thing? Does it to make things easier for you somehow?

Yes, it is more secure to not have a central server that you ...

2026-10-13T23:34:43Z

In reply to nevent1q…qlx9
_________________________

Yes, it is more secure to not have a central server that you trust to not sign bogus events in your name. But then it doesn't work with any Nostr app.

By doing it with a central server that speaks NIP-46 one can reuse their Google/Pomegranate bunker URI in any app, even if that app doesn't support the thing directly.

But Pomade does the signing locally if I remember correctly, you could look into that. It is deployed on Flotilla.

And there is FROSTR (which has been renamed, probably, to Igloo or something else) for the full self-sovereign setup in which you run all the things. They have an Amber-like app that does the signing in your phone.

The problem is that I don't want to annoy the current ...

2026-10-13T23:29:13Z

In reply to nevent1q…hzff
_________________________

The problem is that I don't want to annoy the current operators to make them update their stuff, and it would risk splitting the ecosystem, making it too complex and so on.

But If someone wants to run an alternative central, perhaps they could do just GitHub, Apple and Microsoft and not Google? With a different set of operators? I don't know, to avoid conflict.

Someone else could run one that does phone numbers and raw email (not supported in the codebase, but should be easy to add, although SMS costs money and these things are directly painful to me so I don't want to touch them).

Someone else could run one that doesn't integrate with anything, just generates a secret and tells the user to store that, which they can later use to recover their nsec or login in to other apps. How this could work exactly is yet to be discussed.

The thing is just a NIP-46 bunker, it doesn't require ...

2026-10-13T23:24:51Z

In reply to nevent1q…redp
_________________________

The thing is just a NIP-46 bunker, it doesn't require adoption by others to be useful in one app.

I used to use Google Reader many years ago and if I ever skipped ...

2026-10-13T14:58:21Z

In reply to nevent1q…ukgm
_________________________

I used to use Google Reader many years ago and if I ever skipped a day of reading it would start to accumulate hundreds of articles. It was almost slavery. Eventually I was saved by Google Reader shutting down.

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww

2026-10-13T14:55:55Z

In reply to nevent1q…lu05
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww)

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww

2026-10-13T14:55:36Z

In reply to nevent1q…z69u
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww)

Is this a bunch of stuff related to antennas? I don't get it.

2026-10-13T14:53:10Z

In reply to nevent1q…trrd
_________________________

Is this a bunch of stuff related to antennas? I don't get it.

I should have phrased 5 more like an argument (because liking ...

2026-10-13T14:51:40Z

In reply to nevent1q…5gls
_________________________

I should have phrased 5 more like an argument (because liking Amber is not an argument against supporting an alternative, I like Amber myself too!), because perhaps people who say that in fact want to say something like:

"I think every person should have a phone with Amber installed and only use Nostr apps from that phone and the absolute requirement for ever thinking about using Nostr is that you have to first install Zapstore then Amber and promise you'll never uninstall that, never lose your phone to someone that will steal your key, and that you'll keep a paper or steel backup of your nsec at home at all times."

What are your apps? Did you read my answer to the anti-Google ...

2026-10-13T14:48:24Z

In reply to nevent1q…qvrf
_________________________

What are your apps?

Did you read my answer to the anti-Google sentiment above?

Are you saying that some people decide to fund and encourage ...

2026-10-13T14:46:20Z

In reply to nevent1q…xync
_________________________

Are you saying that some people decide to fund and encourage stupid projects that waste millions of hours of time of thousands of people who could otherwise be working in actual competitors to these incumbents?

That makes a lot of sense and I believe this stuff happens indeed, but I was trying to think of an example of this when I realized it would lead to the conclusion that Nostr itself is a psyop.

I told a big story and forgot to elaborate on the exact point you ...

2026-10-13T14:40:42Z

In reply to nevent1q…fjep
_________________________

I told a big story and forgot to elaborate on the exact point you had asked, so here it is:

if these new inventions have such obvious flaws that make them impossible to scale to a billion users, why haven't their own inventors realize it?

For a long time I thought they were just not seeing the issues, but after some experiences I observed I changed my answer.

Now I think they are not really thinking about changing anything, they just want to see their pet project running, and they are happy if it runs with a few thousand users and they're idolized by some of them. I don't really understand it and can't imagine the feeling myself, because to me the technology or protocol or whatever is really just the means to what I consider a higher end, but to these people I think the technology itself is the end. This perspective is what I was calling "unserious".

People making new apps, why aren't you adding Pomegranate ...

2026-10-13T14:33:13Z

People making new apps, why aren't you adding Pomegranate support?

1) I didn't know it existed (now you know);
2) I think it has a fatal flaw (please say what is it);
3) I am phisophically opposed to Google (Pomegranate supports other providers, and even no providers at all, it can even be made to support phone numbers, a single password, an email, a set of friends' keys, you name it, but none of that is active yet because there is not enough interest);
4) I think users have to be trained to type private keys everywhere;
5) I like Amber (I've heard this one before so I included it here even though it makes no sense).

quoting
nevent1q…h5lu
I understand what you're saying and linking accounts sounds like a solution to this.

But, honestly, Pomegranate solves this already in a much more elegant and better way that doesn't come with death-inflicting tradeoffs: nevent1q…nwp6

I understand what you're saying and linking accounts sounds ...

2026-10-13T14:26:22Z

In reply to nevent1q…wup8
_________________________

I understand what you're saying and linking accounts sounds like a solution to this.

But, honestly, Pomegranate solves this already in a much more elegant and better way that doesn't come with death-inflicting tradeoffs:

quoting nevent1q…nwp6
How to add Google login to your app without having private keys in your app or handing them to Google: https://viewsource.win/fiatjaf.com/pomegranate

A very dry demo of its capabilities: https://pomegranate-admin.netlify.app/

At its core it's a bunker powered by FROST threshold signatures. Supported now in https://nostrord.com/, https://jumble.social/ and https://hallway0.netlify.app, with others incoming.

If you already have NIP-46 bunker support this becomes very easy to implement, there is a step-by-step flow in the README there that even an LLM can follow.

What is a website? We should start with this deeply philosophical ...

2026-10-13T14:21:09Z

In reply to nevent1q…4hen
_________________________

What is a website? We should start with this deeply philosophical question.

Just kidding, but really. By "website" I was talking merely about the fact that each website has an owner (or dare I say a "webmaster") and that owner decides what content it hosts, who can write to it etc.

I was not at all talking about having some fancy UI for publishing or reading content, that is the job of clients already and perhaps the essence of what makes Nostr different (and why relays are not exactly websites, that was just an analogy): that it allows clients to be fully independent from servers and vice-versa. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO2dHp-uluo for more discussion around this.

All relays are like that, by the way, all relays have rules, the difference is that the most popular ones are very liberal in their rules: they basically accept anything from anyone with almost no ratelimits even.

I don't know how to elaborate more than what I already said: ...

2026-10-13T13:57:30Z

In reply to nevent1q…yeem
_________________________

I don't know how to elaborate more than what I already said: someone invents some new thing that is sold as having the potential to "build a new internet". And the thing actually works, wow! Everybody is excited, people start to put time into it, use it in their lives, tell others, convince businesses to accept payments using that because it is instant and free, you name it.

Only a small number of people realize what was already obvious from the start: that despite working pretty well when the number of users is low, that thing can never replace the incumbent system, because for that it would have to support billions of users, and this new invention would start breaking horribly if a certain number of users (much less than a billion) arrived. Perhaps it would still work with a billion users, but serious compromises would have to be done: the system would have to centralize drastically and become almost the same thing as the incumbent it replaced.

The most likely outcome is that the new technology never grows beyond a million users, so the obvious issues never materialize. The second most likely outcome is that the thing grows and slowly turns into the worst version of itself and most people don't realize.

Maybe the failure to grow in most cases is influenced by the fact that many people who could have adhered to the cause in the beginning don't do it because they see the obvious flaws, but it's hard to imagine this being the case.

I like the idea, someone has to do it, but these things needs ...

2026-10-12T14:21:50Z

In reply to nevent1q…s22c
_________________________

I like the idea, someone has to do it, but these things needs some heavy ads and marketing to work. In this case at least we would have something more concrete to market, instead of just "nostr", so it is good.

njump.me has been shadowbanned by Google years ago. It is only a ...

2026-10-12T14:18:03Z

In reply to nevent1q…0u6z
_________________________

njump.me has been shadowbanned by Google years ago. It is only a service for sharing links now.

Some months ago a bunch of leftist developers with a relatively ...

2026-10-12T14:11:42Z

In reply to nevent1q…7fwz
_________________________

Some months ago a bunch of leftist developers with a relatively big audience came up with a nonsense idea like that, I don't know if this is talking about the same thing, because the news mentions nothing or no one.

The leaders said they were going to "use Nostr" (God knows what they meant by that), but then their leftist audience were very against it because Nostr is apparently a tool of the unitedstatian fascist empire or something.

I joined their group and offered help in anything they needed, but their project was "on hold" at the time, they never reached out.

I have the impression that these people are deeply unserious, ...

2026-10-12T14:01:15Z

In reply to nevent1q…33p0
_________________________

I have the impression that these people are deeply unserious, they are just trying to make something cool that works on their playground.

Maybe it is my fault, but my impression is that they sell IPFS, FIPS or Yggdrasil as world-changing technologies that could replace the centralized mainstream things we currently have, even if it's a long shot.

For a while, I believed, and I think most people believe otherwise they wouldn't be investing their time in these things. But the creators probably don't care about the long term.

It's the same with Nostr, by the way. Nostr can work just fine with a billion people, that was the most important thing about it. Meanwhile it's clear, obvious if you think for more than 5 minutes that stuff like Mastodon and Bluesky can't, yet people are investing in these things as if they can.

It was naïve of me to think that most people interested in these things want to actually improve the world communication and were just misguided or dumb, it's more likely that they just don't care.

Send pictures of this thing you're talking about, please.

2026-10-12T13:54:43Z

In reply to nevent1q…gnst
_________________________

Send pictures of this thing you're talking about, please.

What podcast? I'm sorry I gave you that idea. This is an idea ...

2026-10-12T13:53:48Z

In reply to nevent1q…lavf
_________________________

What podcast? I'm sorry I gave you that idea.

This is an idea that has been voiced multiple times, there are probably a bunch of NIP proposals open with variations of this idea out there.

It is bad for many reasons.

Thank you for sending $0 invoices every month to my email, ...

2026-10-12T13:36:34Z

Thank you for sending $0 invoices every month to my email, Cloudflare.

No, no, that one wasn't me. We must find someone else to ...

2026-10-10T16:56:06Z

In reply to nevent1q…6lxl
_________________________

No, no, that one wasn't me. We must find someone else to blame this time.

Do we have any reason to believe spanning trees will scale to ...

2026-10-10T04:36:06Z

In reply to nevent1q…ajez
_________________________

Do we have any reason to believe spanning trees will scale to more than a few thousand users? I don't think they even claim that.

In any case, DHTs have a much easier task if they're storing one address for each node in the network. On IPFS it would be an address for each file (or worse if they're chunked). It cannot work.

I wish they put more effort in explaining how their routing stuff works, since that is really the only thing that matters. The last time I checked they had this thing called "bitswap" that in practice meant that every node was at all times sending a bazillion messages to every other node announcing what files they had, meanwhile I couldn't send a file between two computers in the same LAN even after I manually told one to connect to the other with an IP address and node pubkey. It was ridiculous.

Nostr event nevent1qqsq4sr2ymv7ep2n974yp45vt4w67ryacfw7z0pdvehe2f9u09svlwczyqalp33lewf5vdq847t6te0wvnags0gs0mu72kz8938tn24wlfze6n2c3py

2026-10-10T01:03:38Z

My rate-limiting algorithms are not that simple that they can be ...

2026-10-09T19:45:26Z

In reply to nevent1q…9jwx
_________________________

My rate-limiting algorithms are not that simple that they can be translated into a single number.

Just be mindful of other people's resources and stop blaming them for your excesses and carelessness..

Have you tried to publish a file in one computer in one place and ...

2026-10-09T19:42:27Z

In reply to nevent1q…zgsr
_________________________

Have you tried to publish a file in one computer in one place and download it from another computer in some other place? What have you been using IPFS for?

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww

2026-10-09T03:40:27Z

In reply to nevent1q…rq2d
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww)

#naddr1qq…kr3c

2026-10-09T03:40:02Z

In reply to nevent1q…nud7
_________________________

quoting naddr1qq…kr3c

Why IPFS cannot work, again

Imagine someone comes up with a solution for P2P content-addressed data-sharing that involves storing all the files' contents in all computers of the network. That wouldn't work, right? Too much data, if you think this can work then you're a BSV enthusiast.

Then someone comes up with the idea of not storing everything in all computers, but only some things on some computers, based on some algorithm to determine what data a node would store given its pubkey or something like that. Still wouldn't work, right? Still too much data no matter how much you spread it, but mostly incentives not aligned, would implode in the first day.

Now imagine someone says they will do the same thing, but instead of storing the full contents each node would only store a pointer to where each data is actually available. Does that make it better? Hardly so. Still, you're just moving the problem.

This is IPFS.

Now you have less data on each computer, but on a global scale that is still a lot of data.

No incentives.

And now you have the problem of finding the data. First if you have some data you want the world to access you have to broadcast information about that, flooding the network -- and everybody has to keep doing this continuously for every single file (or shard of file) that is available.

And then whenever someone wants some data they must find the people who know about that, which means they will flood the network with requests that get passed from peer to peer until they get to the correct peer.

The more you force each peer to store the worse it becomes to run a node and to store data on behalf of others -- but the less your force each peer to store the more flooding you'll have on the global network, and the slower will be for anyone to actually get any file.

But if everybody just saves everything to Infura or Cloudflare then it works, magic decentralized technology.

Related

How IPFS is broken

/translate@@npub1gf0…6n2l english

2026-10-09T03:38:05Z

In reply to nevent1q…nud7
_________________________

/translate@translator_nbot (npub1gf0…6n2l) english

Also you would be saving one byte. People who say that Taproot is ...

2026-10-08T23:01:20Z

In reply to nevent1q…278h
_________________________

Also you would be saving one byte.

People who say that Taproot is going to be slurped by quantum computers are doing a psyop on you to prevent you from saving one byte.

Triangles are AI-free. #nevent1q…jr80

2026-10-08T22:57:09Z

Triangles are AI-free.

quoting
nevent1q…jr80
#triangles https://unsplash.com/photos/swing-ride-spinning-in-cloudy-sky--6_Y94Dk480

/translate@@npub1gf0…6n2l portuguese

2026-10-08T22:55:07Z

In reply to nevent1q…dnse
_________________________

/translate@translator_nbot (npub1gf0…6n2l) portuguese

/translate@@npub1gf0…6n2l cigarette

2026-10-08T22:39:43Z

In reply to nevent1q…k2nz
_________________________

/translate@translator_nbot (npub1gf0…6n2l) cigarette

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww

2026-10-08T22:37:16Z

In reply to nevent1q…j3ql
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww)

/trianglize@@npub1zh8…5aww

2026-10-08T22:34:05Z

In reply to nevent1q…7u2j
_________________________

/trianglize@triangles_nbot (npub1zh8…5aww)